Les Ombres d'Esteren - Forum officiel

Can't wait? Download the rules here! https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4MrPcn ... ZHSk0/edit

What are these rules?
Essentially, these rules provide a mechanical framework for determining what it takes for the PCs to travel from point A to point B and what difficulties arise on the journey.

How does it work?
When the players want to travel somewhere a significant distance away, plot a course on the map and divide it into a certain number of sections marked by Checkpoints. At each Checkpoint, the players must make a roll to determine how easily they make it to their destination. On a success, their journey continues without incident. On a failure, their journey proceeds, but they suffer a Complication along the way.

A Complication can be something such as an environmental hazard (falling rocks, rushing water, collapsing bridge) or combat (with animals, bandits, or even Feondas). Environmental hazards create a tense scene in which one PC is imperiled and will suffer some injury unless he can skillfully avoid the danger or be rescued by a friend.

Additionally, these rules contain additional rules for using different skills while traveling. Characters can hunt for food, try to find medicinal plants, and Varigals can use their unique talents to get the party to their destination safely and even faster.

What kind of atmosphere do these rules encourage?
The world of Esteren is a shadowy wilderness fraught with danger, and with these rules you can reflect this reality in your game. Traveling overland is risky, and novice adventurers are likely to suffer injury. These rules also help foster a team atmosphere, as PCs will be placed into dangerous situations where they need to rely on their party members to keep them safe.

What still needs to be done?

• The specifics of determining length of travel time and # of Checkpoints
  New environmental hazards
  Specifics on using additional skills while traveling
  How to determine Difficulty Threshold for Complications and Rescues
  Fine-tuning of various elements

These rules should be mostly playable as-is with a little GL judgment call here and there, but there is much more to be done. Please look over the rules and tell me what you think. If you have any ideas, please post them!

Okay, I've taken a quick look at the whole thing, and I must say it looks like it may be interesting for GLs to use during gaming sessions in order to spruce up the PCs journeys. Personally, I don't think I'd be one to use such a system; I'm not much of a simulationist, and I'd rather plan what is going to happen to the PCs during their travels... or simply invent it on the fly. In my opinion, making use of such a system might be detrimental to spontaneity, and make Esteren a little too mechanical for a game centered on atmosphere and role-playing.

However, for GLs who are more into simulationist games, or who simply like to have a chart ready to determine new events for the PCs, it can be very useful! So far, the basic framework looks good. However, I can't really of something to suggest, since, as I said, I'm not very good at such technical works!

Still, if you have more specific matters on which you'd like to have opinions and advice, don't hesitate to ask, and I'll do my best to support your project!

I appreciate you taking a look at the rules and giving your input, Clovis. I'll certainly pester you for game design advice if need be. I homebrewed these rules for my campaign specifically because I want the party to do a lot of traveling, and I wanted a way to make long journeys interesting both mechanically and narratively (providing danger and survival), without having to plan various encounters along the road in advance, or rely on my (dubious!) ability to come up with various interesting encounters on the fly.

For example, I wouldn't use these rules for traveling to different places in, say, Melwan's vale -- but for traveling from one kingdom to another, definitely.

Actually, my inspiration was D&D 4th edition's "Skill Challenge" mechanic (albeit heavily modified), which is about as far from simulationism as you can get. There's certainly an element of simulationism in the rules, though. Ideally, the GL will heavily narrate the journey and Complications, and the players will take the opportunity to RP their actions as they come up. Much like with Skill Challenges, the whole endeavor becomes pointless if it devolves into rote dice rolling. "Okay, roll a Travel check. You passed? Okay, roll another one. Passed again? Cool, roll another one. You failed? All right, uh, a bridge collapses while you're walking over it. Roll me Acrobatics or Climbing..."

I've heard about the Skill Challenge system for D&D 4th Ed, and although I must say that this edition as a whole leaves me sour-faced, this aspect of the rule seemed interesting to me: it really provides a setting for Players to accurately describe what they are doing, and to use their abilities to the fullest. A nice touch in a game I have little interest in otherwise.

I understand how you intend these rules to work, and as I have said, it can indeed be useful for GLs who want to have a reliable support to insert events during journeys, in order to be able to make them more than "Okay, you travel for 10 days and reach Osta-Baille... just remove 5 azure Daols each for traveling expenses and you're good."

I'm eager to see what improvements and ideas you are going to come with!

I'd be interested to learn what you didn't like about 4e, though that's a conversation for a different thread. Interestingly, Skill Challenges have perhaps had the most negative reception of all the new things introduced in 4e (perhaps largely due to how poor explanation in the early rulebooks and bland implementation in early published adventures), but for me and many others, they were one of the best new features. I've never DM'ed 4e before, but I've read the Dungeon Master's Guide 1 and 2 and many, many arguments on Internet forums and have come to see how they can best be implemented.

I have the impression that Clovis just don't like D&D ...

I personaly only know the 3.5 edition, and even if it's fight-oriented, I don't have a bad feeling about the game or the different universes (Forgotten Realms, Eberron), I think they have a poetic potential... that I find especialy in the different planes. That's really my favourite thing...

To come back to D&D4, the only things I read about it were presentations and extracts before it was finaly finished and printed. I found that there were some good ideas and reflexions (even if fighting monsters is really not what I like )


...

You said you don't finished yet about

The specifics of determining length of travel time and # of Checkpoints
New environmental hazards
Specifics on using additional skills while traveling
How to determine Difficulty Threshold for Complications and Rescues
Fine-tuning of various elements

Don't hesitate to tell us when it's done

I"ve had a bit more time to mull over some details, so here's what I'm thinking of adding to the rules.

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I did a bit of research and found that most people say that a reasonably healthy person can cover 20 miles per day of walking. I figure that measuring the passage of time day-by-day would be too much granularity, so I think measuring a journey in units of 3 days (i.e. 60 mile increments) would create travel times significant enough to not just hand-wave away but short enough to be able to fit most journeys.

Thus, when the party decides to go from Point A to Point B, the GL should determine about how many miles the party will need to cover and divides that number by 60 to get the number of Checkpoints for which the players will need to make Travel checks. (Precision isn't important) Here's where it gets interesting:

Determining the placement of Checkpoints:
The distance between Checkpoints will not be the same. The GL should place Checkpoints along the route based on the type of terrain that the party will experience along the way. For example, a long stretch of the journey that covers a major, well-maintained highway may only be one long segment of the journey separated by two Checkpoints, while a segment of the journey through the dense forests and mountains in central Tri-Kazel of equivalent length may contain several Checkpoints, representing the relative danger and challenge posed by the latter route than the former.

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On a related note, based on my 20 miles/day estimate, it seems like it would take an average of 21-24 days to get from Melwan to Baldh-Ruoch taking the most direct route from Melwan to Expiation, then to Kalvernach, then to Baldh-Ruoch. Does that sound right to those of you more intimately acquainted with the environment of Tri-Kazel?

Well, I have myself difficulties with the estimated travel time between two points. Anyways my own estimation is much smaller than yours. Nothing definitive but here is the rules I use.

Global rules
A non regular walker will go at 1.5mile the hours on plains. Because of the time needed to find a good place to rest and planting the camp I limit the time of the walk to 8 hours. So a standard walker will travel 12 miles day, on plains. Now here some factors to modulate this basis :

• rain, mud : -25% => 9 miles a day
• hills, forest, snow : -33%
• mountain, swamp : -50%
• chariot : -33%
• horse, caernide : to travel, same time. You save fatigue. x2 if you plan to travel fast and far. x3 if only speed is necessary but you have a chance to kill your mount.
• forced march : +50%. Increase fatigue (one vigor roll per day, increase difficulty by one level per successive day. If fail you need to rest one full day)
• Good road : +50%
• track : +10%
• trained walker : +50%

Modificaters are cumulatives.
The speed of a group is always these of the slowest member.

Exemples

• mountains on winter : 12*0.5*0.5 = 3 miles a day with a weather clear. If snowing : 1.5 miles a day !
• chariot in moutain under the rain : 12*0.5*0.5*0.75 = 2.25 miles a day. With a big road 4.5 miles a day

And varigals in that ?

Well varigals are trained walkers so +50% on basis. With a critical hits on trails crosses add a +50%, else a +25% if successed for all the group. The difficulty is 17 in case of chariots, 15 with mounts.

This is the global rules, but road and travels are not rectilinear, especially in mountains (70% of Tri-Kazel) so you can apply a +25% to +75% to the travel time between 2 points on the map.
Exemple : Terkhên - Tulg Naomh = 8cm at 15 miles per cm on the map. 120 miles = 10 days on plains but this is forest, so 13 or 14 days. Hopelly exist a road, reducing the journey to 11 days, 12 if you take your time. Add rain half of the time and a non linear road and you tend to a final 17-18 days.
With horses or caernide (the distance is too big to make a difference) travelling fast it's the half : 9 days. This will be similar for a good varigal forcing the march.

In these conditions you understand better the 7 month need to cross the whole peninsula =)

iz

Thanks for posting your rules, iznurda. They're very detailed. I've been thinking of rules for forced marches, but I'm still working on it.

Very simple but efficient in the meantime. Thanks for sharing Iz