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[WIP] Creature statistics table for easy NPC creation

Publié : 25 oct. 2012, 17:33
par Dragoslav
[WARNING: Massive post ahead]
[Skip to the bottom for archetype statistics. Each archetype will have a link next to the name linking to the post that contains a more detailed breakdown of how the character was put together]

Obviously, Shadows of Esteren takes a very "simulationist" approach to creature design, with everything built from the ground up based on what you would reasonably expect its qualities to be. It's mostly "common sense" in that you would say, for example, "Well, a tortoise is slower than a human, but a horse is much faster, so their Speed stats should go in order of Turtle < Human < Horse." But beyond that abstract level of relative measuring, how do you translate that into game statistics?

Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition has a very highly-refined mathematics behind it, and as a result it includes very easy to use tables of statistics for GMs who want to create their own monsters or who have to make up something on the fly: You just have to consider the level of the PCs in your group and how much of a challenge you want the fight to be (same level, level+1, level+2, etc.), and then you can look at the tables to see what statistics your monsters will need to provide the appropriate challenge (in terms of Armor Class, non-armor defenses, Attack bonus, Damage, etc.). This way, if you don't want to use only the monsters listed in the official handbooks, you don't have to spend hours building monsters up from scratch (as I continually hear that people had to do in the previous edition), and if your players suddenly decide that they want to attack someone or something that you weren't expecting them to, you'll be guaranteed to not make an encounter that's too difficult or too easy if you don't intend to.

What I'm leading up to with all this is that I've decided to try putting together a table of mechanical implementations of "common sense" creature design for the convenience of GLs by bringing together the collective knowledge/experience/common sense of the community.

Here's how I see this starting:

Let's imagine an "average human being," insofar as such a thing is possible. ;) For now, we're just concerned with combat statistics, so we'll forego everything else. Going through the character creation process, we find this:

Ethnicity: Tri-kazelian (the most common ethnicity on the peninsula)
Profession: Peasant (the most common profession in a rural, medieval society). This doesn't give any combat skill bonuses, except maybe for feats, so we'll note the potential +3 to that for now.
Other occupations: For now, we won't assume that our common person has received any specialized combat training aside from what follows:
Birthplace: Most people have undergone compulsory military service, whether in a village militia or a king's army, so this man gets a +1 to Close Combat.
Social Class: As a rural commoner, our man has the potential to have a +1 to Feats, but we'll assume for now that he doesn't, as he's had no particular need to develop such talents beyond what is required for life in his peasant profession.
The Ways: Since we're making an "average" person, it's tempting to put a 3 in all of the Ways, but that's not only illegal for the purposes of character creation, it's not likely when considering the vocation of the person in question. Going with the suggestion on p. 207 of Book 1 that the Way of Combativeness is the only way that can "offer sufficient energy to survive," we'll assume that peasants have a higher Combativeness than the average (so, let's say 3-5). I would make the rest of the Ways as follows:

Combativeness (3-5)
Creativity (1) [a peasant's life is inherently conservative]
Empathy (4) [the peasant "folk" are typically regarded as having a closer relation to nature]
Reason (2) [peasants are typically superstitious]
Conviction (3-4) [peasants typically don't have the theological background to make their beliefs justified, but make up for it with a stubborn preference for the traditional ways]

Age: The average age is probably low, given the shorter lifespan, so we'll say this peasant is 20, with no bonuses and no setbacks.
Traits: Not important here.
Sanity: Not important for an NPC, but with the Ways above, a peasant would have between 2-0 Trauma points from the orientation of his personality, meaning it's not worth considering.
Advantages and Disadvantages: We're assuming an average person here, so by definition he has no particular advantages or disadvantages.

Now the juicy part: The combat statistics.

Fighting Potential: With a Creativity of 1, our peasant has 1 Potential point.
Defense: Reason (2) + Empathy (4) + 5 = 11 (incidentally, this is the same as if both Ways had an aveage (3) statistic).
Speed: Combativeness (3-5) + Empathy (4) = 7-9, for an average of 8.
Stamina: 10
Attack Rating: Combativeness (3-5) + Close Combat (1) = 4-6, for an average of 5.
Standard: Attack 5, Defense 11, Speed 8
Offensive: 6, 10, 8
Defensive: 4, 12, 8
Quick: 5, 10, 9
Movement: 0, 12, 8.
Protection: The typical peasant doesn't wear armor, so this is 0.
Damage: Peasants typically fight with improvised or weak weapons, so this is 1.

For all of this work, we get:

Run-of-the-mill Tri-Kazelian man:
Health: 19/14/9/5
Attack: 5
Damage: 1
Defense: 11
Protection: 0
Speed: 8
Potential: 1
Standard: Attack 5, Defense 11, Speed 8
Offensive: 6, 10, 8
Defensive: 4, 12, 8
Quick: 5, 10, 9
Movement: N/A, 12, 8.

If two peasants got into a knife fight, let's say over the love of a pretty maiden, this is a breakdown of how combat would go:

From a standard attitude, each peasant would have to roll a 6 on 1d10 in order to hit the other, hitting 40% of the time and causing between 1-4 points of damage on a normal hit.

Dime-a-Dozen Bandit: (http://www.esteren.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 160#p15160)
Health: 19/14/9/5
Attack: 11 (melee); 8 (ranged)
Damage: 2 (melee or ranged)
Defense: 9
Protection: 2 (1 armor, 1 shield)
Speed: 9
Potential: 3
Attack, Defense, Speed in the different attitudes: (melee and ranged)
Standard: 11, 9, 8; 8, 9, 8
Offensive: 14, 6, 8; 11, 6, 8
Defensive: 8, 11, 8; 5, 11, 8
Quick: 11, 6, 11; 8, 6, 11

If two bandits were to fight over the last flagon of mead, this is how it would work mechanically:
From a standard attitude, each would be able to automatically hit the other by virtue of their Attack being higher than the other's Defense. However, they are each reasonably armored and absorb 2 Damage from each hit, so on a roll of 1-10, they would cause 1-10 damage. In other words, they hit each other 100% of the time (ignoring critical misses), causing 1-10 damage each time. (Interesting!)

If a bandit were to attack a peasant, say, over who gets to run away with a pretty maiden:
The peasant would be able to hit on a roll of 4, but his weak attack would only bypass the bandit's Protection on a 7! Even though he may make contact with the reckless bandit, the peasant just isn't likely to penetrate the bandit's superior armor. I.e., the peasant hits 60% of the time, but only causes damage 40% of the time, causing 1-4 damage.

The bandit, on the other hand, would still hit 100% of the time despite the cautious peasant's higher Defense. The peasant has no Protection, meaning that the bandit causes 1-10 damage on each hit. (Enough to cause a serious injury in only a single attack!)

--------------------------------

Please feel free to critique my methodology, and especially to post more character samples! My hope is that we can put together a spreadsheet after we get some more numbers and can get a clearer picture for what makes a creature a threat to PCs of varying levels of skills. This way, a GL can get a better idea of what kind of threats his or her players are capable of surviving. :)

Re: [WIP] Creature statistics table for easy NPC creation

Publié : 26 oct. 2012, 00:41
par Clovis
That's a very nice idea Dragoslav! I've been personally thinking about doing such a thing, since it's always good to have a "Typical Bandit/Mercenary/Peasant/Physician/Smith/etc." up your sleeve for when your PCs meet one!

I have not looked into the construction of your average peasant in detail (for now!), but from what I have seen with a quick look, everything seems both to follow the official rules, and to show logic and common sense. Of course, it's not easy to define exactly how we can expect such or such specimen of a category to be, but you sure are doing a pretty good job so far!

Keep sending the good stuff. I'll make sure to follow your creations, and maybe even build a Standard NPC to add to your list... if you don't have a problem with other people participating, of course.

Re: [WIP] Creature statistics table for easy NPC creation

Publié : 26 oct. 2012, 02:45
par Dragoslav
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Clovis! You've encouraged me to go ahead and throw together an "average bandit." And yes, I encourage anyone who wants to participate to post more theoretical builds.

Dime-a-Dozen Bandit

Profession: Fighter. +5 Combat, +3 Shooting and Throwing
Other Occupations: Can't put any more points into combat skills here, so we'll ignore this.
Birthplace: +1 Close Combat from compulsory military service before he began using his martial talents for mercenary motives, giving him access to his first Discipline (it can be any weapon, but we'll say Axes for a typical Tri-Kazelian bandit).
Social Class: Not pertinent.
Ways:
Combativeness (5): Bandits are aggressive and their modus operandi is taking what they want and not asking questions.
Creativity (5): Bandits have no respect for authority, making this a major Way. Combined with their need to be resourceful in order to survive, we'll make this a 5.
Empathy (3): Bandits lack concern for the well-being of others, but they require a close connection with the world around them in order to survive until the next day.
Reason (1): Bandits live passionately and recklessly, rarely concerning themselves with the consequences of their actions.
Conviction (1): A typical bandit doesn't concern himself with principles that impede his free will and lacks a close community whose traditions give him a reason and purpose in life.
Age: As usual, we'll assume that this is a young adult with no particular bonuses or setbacks.
Sanity: Just for laughs, let's look into the psyche of a criminal:
Consciousness: 1 + 1 = 2
Instinct: 5 + 5 = 10
Trauma: 8, meaning that your typical bandit is mentally disturbed as a result of his way of life. A bandit would probably exhibit symptoms of Frenzy, but most GLs would probably roleplay a bandit in such a manner anyway!

Combat stats:
Fighting Potential: 3 (from Creativity 5) - A bandit is a resourceful fighter
Defense: Reason (1) + Empathy (3) + 5 = 9. Bandits are reckless and don't watch out for their own safety.
Speed: Combativeness (5) + Empathy (3) = 8. Bandits are always quick to jump into a fight.
Stamina: 10
Attack Rating:
Melee: Combativeness (5) + Favored weapon discipline (6) = 11
Standard: A: 11 D: 9 S: 8
Offensive: A: 14 D: 6 S: 8
Defensive: A: 8 D: 11 S: 8
Quick: A: 11 D: 6 S: 11
Movement: A: N/A D: 12 S: 8

Ranged: Combativeness (5) + Shooting and Throwing (3) = 8
Standard: A: 8 D: 9 S: 8
Offensive: A: 11 D: 6 S: 8
Defensive: A: 5 D: 11 S: 8
Quick: A: 8 D: 6 S: 11
Movement: A: N/A D: 12 S: 8
Equipment:
Francisca: Damage 2
Bow: Damage 2
Leather tunic: 1 Protection
Round shield: 1 Protection

Dime-a-Dozen Bandit:
Health: 19/14/9/5
Attack: 11 (melee); 8 (ranged)
Damage: 2 (melee or ranged)
Defense: 9
Protection: 2 (1 armor, 1 shield)
Speed: 9
Potential: 3
Attack, Defense, Speed in the different attitudes: (melee and ranged)
Standard: 11, 9, 8; 8, 9, 8
Offensive: 14, 6, 8; 11, 6, 8
Defensive: 8, 11, 8; 5, 11, 8
Quick: 11, 6, 11; 8, 6, 11

If two bandits were to fight over the last flagon of mead, this is how it would work mechanically:
From a standard attitude, each would be able to automatically hit the other by virtue of their Attack being higher than the other's Defense. However, they are each reasonably armored and absorb 2 Damage from each hit, so on a roll of 1-10, they would cause 1-10 damage. In other words, they hit each other 100% of the time (ignoring critical misses), causing 1-10 damage each time. (Interesting!)

If a bandit were to attack a peasant, say, over who gets to run away with a pretty maiden:
The peasant would be able to hit on a roll of 4, but his weak attack would only bypass the bandit's Protection on a 7! Even though he may make contact with the reckless bandit, the peasant just isn't likely to penetrate the bandit's superior armor. I.e., the peasant hits 60% of the time, but only causes damage 40% of the time, causing 1-4 damage.

The bandit, on the other hand, would still hit 100% of the time despite the cautious peasant's higher Defense. The peasant has no Protection, meaning that the bandit causes 1-10 damage on each hit. (Enough to cause a serious injury in only a single attack!)

---------------------------------

I'll update the first post later with an easy reference for making an above average example of any archetype using Advantages (e.g. Strong Bandit, Archer Bandit, etc.). It's also a simple matter to increase a combatant's skills to represent advanced training or previous experience in order to give players a greater challenge: I'm not including extra skills from the 100 XP that each PC gets at creation, so GLs can give an NPC a few extra skill bumps if they want.

Re: [WIP] Creature statistics table for easy NPC creation

Publié : 26 oct. 2012, 08:44
par iznurda
Well, have fighting numbers is a good thing but it will be great to have some common domain/discipline too, like feats. For example, how to surprise them with no stats ? What do you think about ?

The method seems good, but yours bandit are pretty good fighter. Make a knight and you will see want I mean.

iz

Re: [WIP] Creature statistics table for easy NPC creation

Publié : 26 oct. 2012, 16:00
par Dragoslav
iznurda a écrit :Well, have fighting numbers is a good thing but it will be great to have some common domain/discipline too, like feats. For example, how to surprise them with no stats ? What do you think about ?

The method seems good, but yours bandit are pretty good fighter. Make a knight and you will see want I mean.

iz
I think that's a great idea, and I only excluded skills that aren't strictly combat-related for the sake of simplicity/time. I'd like to go back and add skills in certain domains such as Stealth (e.g., for figuring out whether a bandit ambush succeeds in surprising the PCs). If you have any suggestions for what other skills aside from Close Combat and Shooting & Throwing to my above examples, feel free to post them. :)

I quickly made a knight PC just now, and here are the quick statistics I got for him:
Potential: 2
Attack: 11
Defense: 10
Damage: 3 (Long Sword)
Protection: 3 (Chain mail + round shield)

All together, the bandit and knight are about equally good fighters. Though somewhat surprising, this makes sense to me, because a regular, 16-20 year old PC knight at creation is likely still a squire, and both the bandit and the knight in this case are equally young and inexperienced. However, the knight has the advantage of having access to better equipment, and a player will probably spend some of his extra XP on boosting his Defense.

Re: [WIP] Creature statistics table for easy NPC creation

Publié : 26 oct. 2012, 18:24
par iznurda
The equipment does not that much difference. I my mind brigands are not fighters and I consider these you describe much like mercenary than brigands.

To manage human opposition I myself use this simple table:

Rank -------------- value
Noob -----------------> 3
Basic ----------------> 5
Medium -------------> 8
Professional --------> 11
Expert --------------->14
Master --------------->17

I use the average potential of 2.
If it's a particulary NPC, like a chief, I give him a +1 or +2 bonus, or a higher rank.
Rest the defense. Usually offensive fighter's defense < no fighter PC. I consider 3 levels : The first to 9 for warriors and others armored classes. 11 to the well balanced NPC and 13 for the others.
The speed now : use the table without the master rank.

And after I apply these ranks to the NPC.
Example :
A peasant are basic fighters so I give them 5 in combat. They have no offensive predisposition so I give them a 11 in def. It give me :
Run-of-the-mill Tri-Kazelian man:
Health: 19/14/9/5
Attack: 5
Damage: 1
Defense: 11
Protection: 0
Speed: 5
Potential: 2

Mine's are slower than your's but it take me only 20 sec to make it :D Obviously you can adapt to the need, it's just a starting point.

Brigands now :
They are medium fighters, range or contact. Def : because of their violent nature I give them a 9. They are fast enough to strike first most of the time so I give them a medium rank with a 8.

Bandit:
Health: 19/14/9/5
Attack: 8 (melee); 8 (ranged)
Damage: 2 (melee or ranged)
Defense: 9
Protection: 2 (1 armor, 1 shield)
Speed: 8
Potential: 2

Bandit's chief:
Health: 19/14/9/5
Attack: 11 (melee); 8 (ranged)
Damage: 2 (melee or ranged)
Defense: 9
Protection: 2 (1 armor, 1 shield)
Speed: 8
Potential: 2

A Hilderin knight :
Health: 19/14/9/5
Attack: 11 (melee professional); 8 (ranged)
Damage: 3 (melee ) 2 (ranged)
Defense: 8
Protection: 4 (3 armor, 1 shield)
Speed: 8
Potential: 2

A Hilderin Torr Ceann (Book I, P169) :
Health: 19/14/9/5
Attack: 14 (melee expert); 11 (ranged professionnal)
Damage: 3 (melee ) 2 (ranged)
Defense: 10 (bonus of experience)
Protection: 4 (3 armor, 1 shield)
Speed: 8
Potential: 2
Combat art : cavalry, parry and/or archery

A Hilderin master of arms :
Health: 19/14/9/5
Attack: 16 (master in melee); 11 (ranged professionnal) (or the opposite, if you need)
Damage: 3 (melee ) 2 (ranged)
Defense: 12 (bonus of experience)
Protection: 4 (3 armor, 1 shield)
Speed: 8
Potential: 2
combat art : cavalry, parry and/or archery

About discipline it's the same, just apply the table : bandit are noob in erudition, medium in stealth (professional if a rogue). Etc.

If it can help

iz

Re: [WIP] Creature statistics table for easy NPC creation

Publié : 26 oct. 2012, 19:36
par Dragoslav
Thanks, iznurda -- I'll look over that more closely when I have time, but it looks very helpful.
iznurda a écrit : Mine's are slower than your's but it take me only 20 sec to make it :D Obviously you can adapt to the need, it's just a starting point.
Considering that the goal of this project is to come up with a system that lets GLs quickly make up NPCs, then your system works very well. :)

Re: [WIP] Creature statistics table for easy NPC creation

Publié : 29 oct. 2012, 16:41
par Clovis
Glad to see some more has been done!

Regarding the creation of a "dime-a-dozen" PC, I'm actually more with Dragoslav on this one: in my mind, one of the basic principles of Shadows of Esteren is that a starting Character is no more powerful than any average NPC: even a lowly peasant has the same amount of skill points as the well-raised son of an Osta-Baille noble. This way, the game is all the more realistic, and it definitely goes along with "the PCs are not chosen ones" mentioned in the book.

However, as iznurda mentioned, don't hesitate to go for a full creation: every skill can actually be useful, even for the most basically violent NPC. Craft? Trapmaking. Performance? Impersonation to confuse potential preys. Travel? Knowing about the region, all the better to know of the good spots for ambushing and hiding.

Of course, going as far as that can be confusing, especially for unimportant Characters (who cares that Joe the cobbler has a 8 in Performance?), but any GL using such stats is free to pick what seems useful to me: if it's just about knowing the fighting abilities, then no need to go as far as that.

As a final note, I'll add that concerning the experience of a Character, I think I'd set the following table. Note that the amounts given include the initial 100XP that every Character is given:


Novice (a child): -100XP (meaning that he must have Disadvantages (Frail, Weak, or Fragile are good examples), or lose points in some Domains, which will give him XP according to the rates on p.212)

Beginner (a young teenager): 0XP

Standard (a regular starting PC/NPC): 100XP

Experienced: 300XP

Seasoned: 500XP

Veteran: 700XP

Venerable: 900XP


Maybe I'll create a dime-a-dozen craftsman to exemplify my point and put it to the test...

Re: [WIP] Creature statistics table for easy NPC creation

Publié : 30 oct. 2012, 09:06
par iznurda
Hi !

With named NPC I use the normal creation process but the idea here is to have fast number for for unscheduled encounters or generic. In that case I use the rule I gave just above.

iz

Re: [WIP] Creature statistics table for easy NPC creation

Publié : 27 nov. 2012, 09:20
par iznurda
Hi !

Have you progress on this project ? Have you a feedback to give us Dragoslav ?

iz