Les Ombres d'Esteren - Forum officiel

Dear Tri-Kazelians,

Just a quick clarifying question on the Contested Actions explanation on page 234 of Book 1. I tried to see if this question has already been answered here, but could not find an answer - so I apologise in case this has indeed been covered elsewhere.

My question is: the last sentence of the Contested Actions para on page 234 states that for (Contested) Persuasion rolls, the Character being persuaded can, if he wants, use his Mental Resistance rating (which is fine) or his Way of Empathy instead of his rating in the Relation Domain. My question is related to the second part of that sentence. Since it says "...OR Way of Empathy instead of the rating in the Relation Domain", isn't the Relation Domain based on the Empathy Way, which means using the Relation Domain's rating (assuming one has it) should always be higher that the Empathy Way rating (as to use the Relation Domain, you actually have to add that Domain's rating to the Empathy Way)?

So, assuming I have understood this correctly, is there a typo in this last sentence? Perhaps the "or his Way of Empathy" part should be removed?

Thanks and may Feondas never disturb your peace!

Strategiser a écrit :My question is related to the second part of that sentence. Since it says "...OR Way of Empathy instead of the rating in the Relation Domain", isn't the Relation Domain based on the Empathy Way, which means using the Relation Domain's rating (assuming one has it) should always be higher that the Empathy Way rating (as to use the Relation Domain, you actually have to add that Domain's rating to the Empathy Way)?

In fact you're partially wrong. Even if Relation relies on Empathy, if you have zero points in that domain, the throw will not rely only on Empathy.
Furthermore, you can have Disadvantages that lower the score of Relation, so even if you have 5 in Empathy, 0 in Relation, a disadvantage like "Narrow-minded" or "Ugly" can lower your score by a total of 3 (if you take one of these once, and the other twice), which will force you to have only 2 in Relation score.

That said, it's important to note that informations about domains related to ways are only put here to fasten remembering the relations domain <> way.
In this case, the dice roll would always be a Relation roll, it's just noticed that, whenever you have zero score or bonus/malus in this domain, you will simply roll an Empathy roll

Hope I explained it well

Thanks for the reply.

Just to make my question clearer (and thus to confirm my understanding of your answer)...

Given that the Persuasion roll is done in the following way (excluding the possibility of using Disciplines and the other part of the equation): 1d10 + Relation Domain Rating + Empathy Way Rating.

It then follows that even if the Relation Domain Rating is 0, one would still roll 1d10 + Empathy Way.

Now for Contested Persuasion Rolls, are we saying that the persuaded Character can choose to roll: 1d10 + (2xEmpathy Way Ratings) by replacing the Relation Domain Rating with Empathy Way Rating (therefore doubling the Empathy Way Rating)?

OR are we saying that the roll will then be: 1d10 + Empathy Way Rating? In which case, my question is (if the above understanding is correct) why would anyone replace Relation Domain Rating with Empathy Way Rating as the Relation Domain Rating can at minimum only be 0 (so, in effect, it is the same thing as not replacing at all).

I think once the above is clarified, everything else will be clear too.

Thanks.

Pierstoval actually answered very correctly. I'll sum things up:

When you are being targeted by a social roll, you can resist with one of the three:
- Your Mental Resistance
- Your score in Relation (Empathy + Relation + Bonuses)
- Your score in Empathy

It can be more interesting for a Character to roll Empathy instead of Relation because, as Pierstoval said, some Disadvantages can lower your Relation rating.

Is there still something you're not sure about?

Thank you both, and apologies for the late reply. All clear.

's'alright!