Alternate Initiative (Cribbing 'Edge of the Empire')

[selderane]

Since playing Edge of the Empire, I've fallen in love with how it handles initiative. In short: Each player makes their initiative roll, along with the GM rolling for NPCs, and the results become slots for either the PCs or NPC to use in any order.

So, for example, Jim rolls his initiative and gets 17. Bob gets 12, and Mary gets 13. The two NPCs they're fighting get 11 and 16. In most RPGs (Shadows of Esteren included) the combat round looks thus:

Jim
NPC 1
Mary
Bob
NPC 2

In Edge of the Empire, however, the round looks:

PC
NPC
PC
PC
NPC

I think this kind of initiative adds a whole new strategic element to combat, and allows the players to adapt to the shifting nature of a fight. Marvel Heroic Roleplaying does something similar. This way if, say, Jim does something to an NPC and Bob has something else that will play off of it really well, Bob can do that thing on the next PC slot. In the original initiative system, he has to wait for Mary to act, which may change the dynamic of the entire fight, making Bob's idea potentially useless.

My conundrum is to adapt the Shadows of Esteren system to this format. The hitch, however, are the Fighting Attitudes. I think those are nifty and I'd like to keep them but they're dependent upon knowing what the lower initiative-rolling PCs/NPCs are choosing first. I don't really have a solution on how to keep them and implement this alternate initiative system.

Suggestions?

[Clovis]

An interesting system to favor cooperation and tactics between the Players, but I have a problem with the premise that the combatants have the time to think and react to strategize their actions. Indeed, fighting (at least, in my idea of Shadows of Esteren) is supposed to be quick, violent, and messy, with no time to pause and think “Okay, so my buddy is going to attack from the right, so I’m going to go for my foe’s left side to flank him.”

Don’t get me wrong: I like the concept of slotted action since it rewards the Players’ ingenuity and forethought, but I feel that it would take off some of the gritty aspect of Esteren, which is something I like to maintain and stress.

Might be appropriate for a more combat-oriented gaming style though.

At any rate, thank you for sharing the idea!

[selderane]

You could be right. Edge of the Empire (since it's the Star Wars RPG) is all about capturing the high-adventure feel of the Original Trilogy. So it wants you to set things up to be cool looking.

Marvel Heroic Roleplaying is all about being sweet and cool looking in a comic book.

So it might not be a good fit in retrospect. That said, I believe Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay uses a similar system to Edge of the Empire, and to my knowledge that game isn't about looking cool doing things.

[Clovis]

You could be right. Edge of the Empire (since it's the Star Wars RPG) is all about capturing the high-adventure feel of the Original Trilogy. So it wants you to set things up to be cool looking.

Marvel Heroic Roleplaying is all about being sweet and cool looking in a comic book.

Well, regarding SoE, it all depends on what you want it to be. If you want to go for a more heroic gaming style (which is a perfectly valid possibility, albeit not the "canon" one), then the slotted initiative system may fit well.

So it might not be a good fit in retrospect. That said, I believe Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay uses a similar system to Edge of the Empire, and to my knowledge that game isn't about looking cool doing things.

Hmm, now that you mention it, I can’t remember how initiative works in Warhammer RPG… isn’t it with opposed Agility rolls? Or does it simply rest on circumstances and common sense?

[selderane]

I thought the current iteration of the Warhammer Fantasy RPG served as the mechanical basis of Edge of the Empire.

But that's just talking the physical dice themselves. I know the underpinning mechanics are different, I just don't know to what degree.

[Valenae]

What happens in Edge of Empire if two PC wants to act when this is PCs turn?

I think best way to handle initiative is ti use speed (without roll).

Combat round in my game looks like this:
I make deck of cards (PC and NPC) sorted by speed.
Then I fast put cards on table from lowest speed to highest.
If player wants to change Attitude he must tell it when his card is putted on table. If he didnt - its attitude remains standart. If I want to change Attitude to NPC I tell it when I put NPC card.
Then I take card back and plays turns from highest speed to lowest speed.

First I try to make rolls for iniciative but combat goes very slow...
Also I ask every player about his attitude - it also slows combat (and most time player choose standart after thinking 5-6 seconds).

I think it will help!

[kjetilkverndokken]

Indeed, fighting (at least, in my idea of Shadows of Esteren) is supposed to be quick, violent, and messy, with no time to pause and think “Okay, so my buddy is going to attack from the right, so I’m going to go for my foe’s left side to flank him.”

An alternative that is kind of a game mode, that I have been using is based not only on the speed of a characters initiative, but also the characters experience in combat.

Example:
If Peasant John and Philip the Knight both get attacked by brigands, and lets say John gets the higher initiative.
The GL ask Johns player what do you do, but his player uses a bit to long time, and he looses his action, and only covers in fear.
But The Knight get longer time to think, reflecting that he actually do have better understanding of combat and strategy/tactics. So Johns player may only get three seconds while Philips player may get ten times that amount to think about what their characters are doing.

And it works very well among the players, that kind of get more stressed when combat arrives and they play non combatants.

PS:
Other stuff to do, is let combat players actually stand under combat around the table, reflecting them having a better perspective on things, while non combatants actually might need to try to hide behind chairs or sitting lower. Again, helping produce actual feelings revolving the combat happening.

[Clovis]

These are very interesting ideas! So far, I've been sticking to the basic system, with Speed + 1d10 (because I like to add a random factor), but maybe I will feel inclined to make use of the possibilities you mentioned.

Thank you for sharing your ideas!

[selderane]

What happens in Edge of Empire if two PC wants to act when this is PCs turn?

I've never seen an Edge of the Empire game where two players couldn't agree that one should go before the other. The same goes for Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, which uses a similar kind of PC/NPC slot system for combat.

The players generally always recognize and agree who should do what when the slot comes up.

[K2K]

I could see this system workin quite well in certain situations; say, the PCs are a group of mercenaries, soldiers at an Inguard, etc. As professional soldiers, they'd probably be able to 'feel' how their comrades would act.
For the 'normal people' game, I'd rather have the standard system, because it truly emphazises, as Clovis said, the violent and messy aspect of combat in the grim world of Esteren.