Automatic Success and Critical Failures

[Ramzi]

Greetings,

While reading over the Demothén Arts section at the back of the book, I encountered a situation that I am somewhat confused on...

Automatic Success/Failures reads: A PC may be skilled enough in a Domain and have a strong enough Way for the addition of both numbers to go over the Difficulty Threshold defined by the GL without having to roll 1d10. Success is then considered to be given and it is not necessary to roll a die


Now my confusion lies here. Say a Demothén with an Empathy of 5 and Sigin Rann Discipline rank 7 is attempting to cast a first circle power. The chart on page 246 says the difficulty threshold is 11, which the Demothén surpasses with his combined Way+Discipline of 12. Does the Demothén still have to roll his difficulty test to cast a first circle spell, or is it treated as an automatic success??

My understanding so far is that summoning the power from the spirits of nature is a difficult and taxing exercise. So it strikes me as odd that they would not have to roll a test at all. Perhaps I am wrong in my reading. Please clarify for me

[Old timer]

As written, yes he would automatically succeed. I feel that it would be unfair to a player who can auto succeed to make them roll on the chance that they will roll a 1 (which would also be a success if not using the critical fumble rules) and then role again on the small chance of then rolling another 1 and critically failing. That to me is bad GLing, making your players roll on the off chance of some form of terrible failure when by the rules no roll would be needed.

[Ramzi]

Personally I like the random element of critical failures. I think it represents the chaotic nature of battle, where nothing goes as planned. If said PC were attempting to channel in a calm environment, free from distractions or worry, I would agree that no roll is needed. But trying to concentrate while others are actively trying to kill you or you friends I would find a little stressful.

In either point that is how I look at it, but I am inexperienced, and haven't decided on what I will do in my system yet. Which is why I come here, to hear what others have to say about this

[Mànas]

Although like you I think it is a good idea to keep the risk of a critical failure to represent the stress of battle, there's also the fact that a player has to roll a dice or two just to test if he rolls two ones in a row. Statistically it will almost never occur, one time out of a hundred, but it will always take time and slow down the action.

I prefer to keep the atmosphere intact and lose a tiny bit of the fighting realism. Moreover, fights are already very deadly in SoE and adding this tiny risk of making a critical failure can highly disappoint the players when they lose their characters out of very very bad luck.

Sorry if my english is not very good.

[Clovis]

Don't forget the rules on p.250 of Book 1: "If a natural 1 is obtained in [a Sigil Rann] roll, the invocation does not occur, but the Demorthèn still consumes the corresponding Rindath. The wasted energy is spread among nature."

As you can see, simply rolling a 1 makes a Sigil Rann roll a failure. Of course, critical failures can happen too, in which case not only does the Demorthèn waste Rindath, but he also unleashes an uncontrolled manifestation of the powers of nature...

As far as I am concerned, I always dictate that no matter how skillful a Demorthèn (or Elect of the Temple, for that matter) is, he always has to roll during a stressful situation, since calling upon an Ogham / a Miracle always requires special efforts. Of course, this is only my personal way of handling things. Other GLs are free to do as they wish.

[Ramzi]

Ah yes, good catch! I can't believe I forgot that. I remember reading that now the first time i picked up the book, but it escaped me until now.

I believe that answers my questions. Keeping in line with the low fantasy setting, and how much of the Demorthèn arts have been forgotten, it seemed odd to me for players being able to "instantly cast" without some kind of test roll.

thank you all!

[Mànas]

You are right, I forgot about this rule too.

For magic it's different then and I think the dice must be rolled since, in this particular case, a failure may happened more frequently than with other Domains.

Thank you for having reminded me of this rule.

[Clovis]

You're welcome! And I insist: don't feel limited by the rules or by any other part of the book. This is the official, Esteren Team-approved version of course, but if you feel that some changes here and there would make you and your Players enjoy Shadows of Esteren all the more, don't hold back