Les Ombres d'Esteren - Forum officiel

Hullo, folks,

I've been wondering something...

In the games of Shadows of Esteren (or Les Ombres d'Esteren for those French folks) that you've run, how may of your players have taken full-fledged members of the Demorthen, the Temple, and the Magientists, given the limited amount of information about these cultures? Or have players taken lesser members of these Factions (such as Ionnthen, acolytes and adepts of the Temple and Magientist students)?

What's the reasoning behind this, and how do players and Game Leaders feel about this matter?

As far as I'm concerned, the "limited information" problem never truly was one for me: after all, for each one of these factions, there is a whole chapter devoted to an overall presentation of their customs, ethics and organization, without mentioning what is given in chapters such as "Societies".

Of course, many in-depth elements are left unknown, but that never proved that much of a hindrance for me: when a question arose about such or such faction, either I gave an answer based on the indications provided in Book 1, or I improvised the answer according to what seemed logical to me. With enough imagination and common sense, you can actually go quite far without having to rely on by-the-book knowledge.

Have you met problems in particular about this point during your game sessions?

Hello !

I didn't think about it as I began my campaign by forum (Subjet "OdE" : http://www.darkrunes.com/fortuna-impera ... um.php?f=8). And that don't seem to disturb players. I give you the creation of the player character I remember, those who play or played :

• Varigal : 1
• Ionnthèn & demorthèn : 3
• Temple acolyte : 3
• Magientist : 1
• Bard : 0
• Tarish : 1
• Osag : 1
• Occultist : 2
• Normal people ( ) : more than 5...

I had to invent some details but I don' felt real problems... It's still true I'm one of the Esteren Authors, I'm not objectiv or neutral I suppose

Unfortunately I'm not leading a game of SoE (I lack the players... Poor me ), but I can give my opinion as Iris's player.

I'm playing a member of the Temple. I'm mainly relying on what I know of the main monotheistic religions. As most of them have common points, I suppose it could be the same. And in case of question I simply ask my GL... Most of the time as I try to give ideas, I just need a validation.
For example, one of my question was about the titles for the hierarchy in the Sigire faction. It was simply solved taking a mix of military grades and few religious titles.

In some ways, I think that one of the best tings to do because it involves both players and leader to create their own Esteren.

I hope it can help you to solve your problems

Hullo, Clovis,

Clovis a écrit :As far as I'm concerned, the "limited information" problem never truly was one for me: after all, for each one of these factions, there is a whole chapter devoted to an overall presentation of their customs, ethics and organization, without mentioning what is given in chapters such as "Societies".

While this is certainly true, players have a strange habit of wanting *more*. As a GL, it falls on me to provide the players with information about the various factions for a player who wants to play a member of the faction. Several of my players (in both gaming groups) considered the material to be "limited information" because the material is presented from a subjective, rather than objective, point of view.

Clovis a écrit : Of course, many in-depth elements are left unknown, but that never proved that much of a hindrance for me: when a question arose about such or such faction, either I gave an answer based on the indications provided in Book 1, or I improvised the answer according to what seemed logical to me. With enough imagination and common sense, you can actually go quite far without having to rely on by-the-book knowledge.

That is pretty much how I've handled the situation with the players, but wanted to know what others who are running the game thought, and how the various GLs have handled this situation (if it came up in their games). I have to say that I don't expect to get any more detail on the three Factions until the Secrets book comes out (maybe), though I guess "The Monastery of Tuath" book will have more stuff about the Temple, as well. Personally, I don't consider this matter to be a hindrance, as it does provide players with the flexibility of taking a variety of approaches, and it allows me to give the subject matter a shading of my own devising, too.

Clovis a écrit : Have you met problems in particular about this point during your game sessions?

Some of the players I know like to have as much detail as they can possibly get, and like a truly detailed history and background and psychology for the Factions. (If said player(s) want to speak up here, I have no problem with them doing so.)

Salut, Iris,

Iris a écrit : I didn't think about it as I began my campaign by forum (Subjet "OdE" : http://www.darkrunes.com/fortuna-impera ... um.php?f=8). And that don't seem to disturb players. I give you the creation of the player character I remember, those who play or played :

• Varigal : 1
• Ionnthèn & demorthèn : 3
• Temple acolyte : 3
• Magientist : 1
• Bard : 0
• Tarish : 1
• Osag : 1
• Occultist : 2
• Normal people ( ) : more than 5...

That's a pretty varied list of player characters, to be honest, though I'm not sure what you mean in the entry by "Normal people", although I think of them as the Peasant Profession more than anything else. I've got a total of nine players, including my goddaughter, in my two gaming groups, so don't have the...different-ness...associated with games in Play by Post (PbP). Both my groups have demorthen/ionnthen, but none have taken a magientist proper.

Iris a écrit : I had to invent some details but I don' felt real problems... It's still true I'm one of the Esteren Authors, I'm not objectiv or neutral I suppose

Nope, you're definitely not objective. That said, do you consider that your "insider" perspective on the game has allowed you to be more creative and inventive about some material than for someone who's not involved with the game and world design?

The weird part of this is that I haven't felt that this was a problem with the game, but two of the players had issues with this, and that's why I brought the subject up.

Hullo, Avrock,

Avrock a écrit : Unfortunately I'm not leading a game of SoE (I lack the players... Poor me ), but I can give my opinion as Iris's player.

Thanks for this. The player's perspective is just as important, if not more so, in this matter as addressing it from the point of view of Game Leaders.

Avrock a écrit : I'm playing a member of the Temple. I'm mainly relying on what I know of the main monotheistic religions. As most of them have common points, I suppose it could be the same. And in case of question I simply ask my GL... Most of the time as I try to give ideas, I just need a validation.
For example, one of my question was about the titles for the hierarchy in the Sigire faction. It was simply solved taking a mix of military grades and few religious titles.

This is pretty much what I've encouraged one of the players to do in terms of handling this matter, as pertains to his former Temple character. Like you said, common reference points. I don't know whether this can be handled the same way in terms of the Demorthen/Ionnthen (and the real-world equivalent of the ancient Druids), but there's no real parallel for the Magientists, is there?

Avrock a écrit : In some ways, I think that one of the best tings to do because it involves both players and leader to create their own Esteren.

That's my feeling in this regard, too.

Avrock a écrit : I hope it can help you to solve your problems

Maybe not solve them, but certainly added a good perspective to matters. Thank you.

John K a écrit :do you consider that your "insider" perspective on the game has allowed you to be more creative and inventive about some material than for someone who's not involved with the game and world design?

It is difficult to answer... Fact is, I create lots of things, not only for Esteren. My blog shows some aspects of it (http://iris-d-automne.over-blog.fr/), but I have far more civilisations, scenarios, ideas on my computer. I count 32 files of 100 pages or more, and some other in another folder... I work a lot in research & documentation... I think... I'm not in a "normal" situation ...

I use a lot of historical inspirations when I need something and I add different ideas... coming from philosophy, religion history, mythology, biology, litterature... I think, everything can be an inspiration source


But if your players have a particular problem, you could open an new subject, one per problem and we could brainstorm to give them some ideas, suggestions...


I hope it can help you !


Iris

Hullo, Iris,

Iris a écrit :

John K a écrit : do you consider that your "insider" perspective on the game has allowed you to be more creative and inventive about some material than for someone who's not involved with the game and world design?

It is difficult to answer... Fact is, I create lots of things, not only for Esteren. My blog shows some aspects of it (http://iris-d-automne.over-blog.fr/), but I have far more civilisations, scenarios, ideas on my computer. I count 32 files of 100 pages or more, and some other in another folder... I work a lot in research & documentation... I think... I'm not in a "normal" situation ...

Definitely not a "normal" situation. I've actually read bits and pieces from your blog (very nice, by the way!), and have seen some of what you're talking about in terms of creating various things. In some ways, I'm like you in that I have all manner of files on my computer about Esteren right now in partial creation mode, but I suspect that you're right about this.

Iris a écrit : I use a lot of historical inspirations when I need something and I add different ideas... coming from philosophy, religion history, mythology, biology, litterature... I think, everything can be an inspiration source

You're right... I use pretty much those same types of aspects for inspiration in my gaming and writing. Mythology and folklore seem to be two good sources of inspiration for Shadows of Esteren, though like you said, inspiration can come from anything.

Iris a écrit : But if your players have a particular problem, you could open an new subject, one per problem and we could brainstorm to give them some ideas, suggestions...

That sounds like a good idea, Iris, but I'll see what the players have to say on the subject. Heck, they can start the threads here about these problems, if they have any, since I know that at least two of the players are here on the forums. Just lurking for the moment, more or less.

Hi folks,

JohnK a écrit : That sounds like a good idea, Iris, but I'll see what the players have to say on the subject. Heck, they can start the threads here about these problems, if they have any, since I know that at least two of the players are here on the forums. Just lurking for the moment, more or less.

<Lurkmode = "off">
I'm one of JohnK's players. I started with a Demorthen character but I realized I didn't know "how" to be a demorthen. What were the "traditions" to be practiced and the "mysteries" we were supposed keep mysterious? How do you interact with the C’maoghs (when I meet one in play)? This led me to change the character to an Ionnthen instead. I will have to learn to be a Demorthen through the world and the GL.

I have been trying to research ancient druids but have not had much luck. Can anyone provide any links to articles or websites that may help out?

Also, have you seen any Esteren blog or forum snippets that provide more demorthen knowledge? I'm not talking about material from the official Esteren books, but what the demorthen have taught the public, thier villagers. This can be from the creators of the game or non-official materials made up by the GLs.

Please note that I do not have access to the secrets section of the forums. I am just looking for information that I can possibly use for my character; world or culture information.

Cheers

Returning to lurk mode </lurkmode = "on">