Agh, villain players, help me stop them

[StripelessTiger]

Okay, so I have a party that is about to consist of a dealer in illicit goods and knowledge (black market), a Varigal who might want to be a serial killer or extortionist, and a wannabe Morcail (Demorthen/Ionnethen gone dark).

How should I try to curb this tendency in my players? I've never had to deal with PCs who want to be, for all intents and purposes, villains. This is an odd thing for me to tackle, and I want to nip it in the bud before it gets off the ground.

Help!

[jujuzecatboy]

Two things:

Comeuppance
Being a bad guy won't go unpunished for long. One too many crime and your players might have guards, thorn-knights, blades of the Temple or many other gardians of the law trying to arrest them. A victim's friends ou relatives might want revenge and maybe they would hire some thugs or assassins after them. And (at least for the morcail) pissed-off demorthens can be quite dangerous...

Worst things
They want to be villains? Allright, then! Show them what the real dark forces are! Feondas, of course, but also ghosts, sorcerers, witches and other spooky creatures. When you are sure they understand they're nothing as evil and dangerous as these, make a point that the people they kill, abuse or steal from are on the safe side of this world. Surely, they will think twice before risking to be forced to flee in the wilderness!

I hope this will be of some use. Good luck and good game!

[Clovis]

I think you should first and foremost talk it out with the players. Just tell them you don't want this in your game, that you don't want to narrate the adventures of a group of asshole who will kill and loot whatever they can get their hands on.

If your players are reasonable fellows, they should understand that they have to be willing to cooperate with you, the GM, for things to go smoothly. If they insist on playing villains, well, I'm going to be a bit harsh, but do you really want to play with them?

It's important for all the players, GM included, to be comfortable with that happens. If someone is not, then that must be addressed.

[seanscian]

Late to the party on this, but I have a motto that I use for these situations: “Give ’em what they ask for!”

You aren’t giving the players what they want, just what they ask for, and Jujuzecatboy has two great points already that follow this adage.

If you want to talk this out GL-to-Player, nipping it there, that might be the fastest and the best for your group, but I have found that doing both is helpful. Let the players know that the societies in the world have banded together against strife and horror, and if they want the characters to oppose all of that—structure and society as well as the dangers in the world—they might have a tougher time of it than they realize!

Of course, Tri-Kazel has its fair share of brigands and bandits, and they all came from somewhere. Maybe you can explore the seediness of the big cities, looking at the larger criminal elements who see the characters’ wickedness as a threat to their own power.

There is a character in my campaign who is working against a Rumor Setback and an Enemy Disadvantage—he was a Bad Guy! This has helped the player work out his usual tendencies toward a darker character; this one has all of that in its history and the game has some aspects of reconciling that. Perhaps you can let the characters go their wicked route, learn how bad it is, and redeem themselves.

[Bluenose]

Maybe VERY late to the party on this but my suggestion is let them!

Course, every action has it's consequence, and every criminal has his cop hunting them. maybe the serial killer has his own Frank Black on his trial, just that step behind but every delay, every kill, every action that might draw attention to them gives him the chance to close in that bit. Put a pie chart in the middle of the table and everytime they do something that might draw attention, colour in a segment - represents the investigator getting closer.

Especially telling if they have a "home" base and return to it to find someone has bene asking questions about *them*.

[StripelessTiger]

You know, I love the idea of using a chart of some kind to indicate suspicion, but maybe not so direct. I did talk it over with my players, but occultism definitely lends to the more illicit side of things. Just dabbling in the occult draws attention because people might think you a witch or sorcerer. The brutality of combat, the threat of being arrested and hanged, or even banished and having their belongings seized are all excellent ways to detour evil behavior.

However, I also had another idea. First is overcoming their Ways to engage in it. Second is relating to the game's Sanity.

Role-playing becoming evil would be related to the Ways and tests. Even though there are insane criminals, there are stable ones too. Someone who is empathetic might not murder someone cold-heartedly without passing a very difficult test.

This also makes me wonder about when player characters are engaged in combat, fighting for their lives in self-defense. Wouldn't their character participating in combat be considered an evil act by their own morals if they chose to be a pacifist, or even someone of the Temple?

Would killing someone in combat cause Trauma?! Witnessing death and gruesome acts calls for a roll. I think this definitely fits.

As for flat out Black Magic. The books directed states that being a Sorcerer/Morcail means you MUST take full Trauma x3 disadvantage. So it only makes sense that being exposed to dark arts would cause Trauma, maybe even inflicting sanity damage by choosing to embrace the darkness. Or being forced to through influence.

[Clovis]

Killing someone would definitely cause Trauma, particularly in the case of someone who isn't used at all to everything it entails: screams of agony, twitching bodies, gore, blood, and so on and so forth. The Difficulty of the Mental Resistance check would be more or less high depending on the character's background, but I think that even battle-hardened veterans could not be completely stone-cold about murder... unless they are suffering from the Empty Fortress disorder, but that's another can of worms!

However, keep in mind that apart from huge loyalists, fanatics, and the like, it is unlikely that someone will fight to the death. Instead, they will certainly elect to run away or to yield. Of course, this leaves the question of knowing what to do with them, but again, that's another story!

Preferably, players should be given opportunities to subdue their opponents or overpower them without having to outright kill them, which can become easy with wound penalties. Of course, combat being a messy affair, there is always a risk of going too far in the thick of it, but that's part of what PCs should be aware of and keep in mind!