***Regarding role-playing, Shadows of Esteren would be somewhere between Ravenloft, Game of Thrones and Call Of Cthulhu.***
Why Call of Ctulhu?
Just because some feonds have tentacles?
Call of Ctulhu
Call of Ctulhu
The Leader should not hesitate to slaughter the PCs at the slightest mistake in order to instil a heavy, horrific atmosphere
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Re: Call of Ctulhu
I've interpreted it to be because of the tone of the setting and because the PCs often start out with no experience of the supernatural. But as we are learning, I'm usually wrong 
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Re: Call of Ctulhu
Hello Valenae !
Why Call of Cthulhu ? ... I would say because of the Lovecraft sense of horror, the discovering of a reality that is nearly unbearable after a long search & investigation to understand what goes on, what are the mysteries of the universe, why things are the way they are...
... you can also thinck of the tentacles !
Why Call of Cthulhu ? ... I would say because of the Lovecraft sense of horror, the discovering of a reality that is nearly unbearable after a long search & investigation to understand what goes on, what are the mysteries of the universe, why things are the way they are...
... you can also thinck of the tentacles !
Re: Call of Ctulhu
The comparison with Call of Cthulhu was made because Shadows of Esteren goes for the same idea of progressively slipping into horror through the discovery of unimaginable things. Horror in both Lovecraftian literature and Shadows of Esteren primarily does not come from horrific creatures or gut-wrenching sights, but from the breaking of certitudes, the awful feeling that the human being is not as supreme and magnificent as it is cracked up to be. There are things hidden beyond our perceptions, beyond our feeble grasp of science, and the simple idea of such things can shatter minds.
Of course, eldritch monsters (in Cthulhu) and Feondas (in Esteren) are obviously horrific in themselves, but more than the creatures in themselves, what is most unsettling about them is that they are wholly alien to the human mind; they are unfathomable mysteries in front of which human reasoning is near-powerless.
Do read Lovecraftian stories if you have not done so already, particularly ones such as The Thing on the Doorstep, The Colour Out of Space, or The Case of Charles Dexter Ward to see how the unknown can strike us with anguish and horror. Other ones like Herbert West - Reanimator or Cool Air can also be good sources of inspiration for Magience-oriented stories.
Of course, eldritch monsters (in Cthulhu) and Feondas (in Esteren) are obviously horrific in themselves, but more than the creatures in themselves, what is most unsettling about them is that they are wholly alien to the human mind; they are unfathomable mysteries in front of which human reasoning is near-powerless.
Do read Lovecraftian stories if you have not done so already, particularly ones such as The Thing on the Doorstep, The Colour Out of Space, or The Case of Charles Dexter Ward to see how the unknown can strike us with anguish and horror. Other ones like Herbert West - Reanimator or Cool Air can also be good sources of inspiration for Magience-oriented stories.
Allez, come on, allons-y, here we go, en avant, godspeed, hardi, let's do this!
Re: Call of Ctulhu
I also found the comparison strange.
In Lovecraft's narrative, the characters live a mostly privileged and comfortable life. Most, if not all, of Lovecraft's protagonists are well-off and overeducated WASPS (white, anglo-saxon people) in a mostly materialistic world that see their beliefs smashed against all those things you mentioned.
People in Tri-Kazel don't seem to have that security at all. Particularly country people. Feondas are an omnipresent threat and, beyond relentless stupidity, I'd say that most, if not everybody, in the peninsula must be quite aware of that danger.
After the clear war declaration of that natural aberrations, I find it hard to make the connection. Lovecraft seemed to want to state that, despite this being a materialistic world*, despite being educated (and so, empowered to deal with ignorance), you won't be safe, because security is an illusion: the threats that matter will destroy you no matter what you do, and whatever you thought was good and important (morality, every single social institution, God) is ridiculously ephimeral and fragile.
Somehow, I don't think that comes across as a surprise to the people in the peninsula.
---
* this in the opinion of Lovecraft, not mine.
In Lovecraft's narrative, the characters live a mostly privileged and comfortable life. Most, if not all, of Lovecraft's protagonists are well-off and overeducated WASPS (white, anglo-saxon people) in a mostly materialistic world that see their beliefs smashed against all those things you mentioned.
People in Tri-Kazel don't seem to have that security at all. Particularly country people. Feondas are an omnipresent threat and, beyond relentless stupidity, I'd say that most, if not everybody, in the peninsula must be quite aware of that danger.
After the clear war declaration of that natural aberrations, I find it hard to make the connection. Lovecraft seemed to want to state that, despite this being a materialistic world*, despite being educated (and so, empowered to deal with ignorance), you won't be safe, because security is an illusion: the threats that matter will destroy you no matter what you do, and whatever you thought was good and important (morality, every single social institution, God) is ridiculously ephimeral and fragile.
Somehow, I don't think that comes across as a surprise to the people in the peninsula.
---
* this in the opinion of Lovecraft, not mine.
Re: Call of Ctulhu
The comparison between these works of fiction probably depends largely on your personal interpretation of Esteren.
For example, my group has agreed upon one 'fact' for our world: The threat from Feondas is, actually, not really omnipresent. Rather, about 80% of all Feond stories are just exaggerations by frightened people, sightings of bears in foggy nights, et. al.
When the players know this, but the characters do not, any 'supernatural' threat can be role-played quite nicely, as the players realize they are most likely currently exaggerating themselves.... but in the end, they aren't sure of it.
Playing with the players' expectations, the fear of the unknown, even uncertainty, is very Cthulhu-esque to me.
For example, my group has agreed upon one 'fact' for our world: The threat from Feondas is, actually, not really omnipresent. Rather, about 80% of all Feond stories are just exaggerations by frightened people, sightings of bears in foggy nights, et. al.
When the players know this, but the characters do not, any 'supernatural' threat can be role-played quite nicely, as the players realize they are most likely currently exaggerating themselves.... but in the end, they aren't sure of it.
Playing with the players' expectations, the fear of the unknown, even uncertainty, is very Cthulhu-esque to me.
Re: Call of Ctulhu
That an individual is well-to-do is irrelevant to what they do when faced with something the can't understand.myst a écrit :I also found the comparison strange.
In Lovecraft's narrative, the characters live a mostly privileged and comfortable life. Most, if not all, of Lovecraft's protagonists are well-off and overeducated WASPS (white, anglo-saxon people) in a mostly materialistic world that see their beliefs smashed against all those things you mentioned.
People in Tri-Kazel don't seem to have that security at all. Particularly country people. Feondas are an omnipresent threat and, beyond relentless stupidity, I'd say that most, if not everybody, in the peninsula must be quite aware of that danger.
After the clear war declaration of that natural aberrations, I find it hard to make the connection. Lovecraft seemed to want to state that, despite this being a materialistic world*, despite being educated (and so, empowered to deal with ignorance), you won't be safe, because security is an illusion: the threats that matter will destroy you no matter what you do, and whatever you thought was good and important (morality, every single social institution, God) is ridiculously ephimeral and fragile.
Somehow, I don't think that comes across as a surprise to the people in the peninsula.
---
* this in the opinion of Lovecraft, not mine.
I think you're being entirely too objective about this. The simple fact is that humanity is wired to think, irrationally so, that the future will likely be bright, we'll be okay, and that bad thing that happened over there can't possibly happen here.
I'll grant that your average Tri-Kazelian might have a higher initial tolerance to certain types of horror when compared to your average WASP, but then, at that point, you have to then consider normalcy bias and what kinds of horror that leaves you unprepared for.
Lovecraft wrote highly-educated, well off, protagonists because that's what he knew. That's what he was. He wrote about what scared him.
Lovecraftian horror is about the fear of the unknown and its indifference to you and the things you love. There's zero reasons those same principles cannot be applied to a low fantasy setting.
Book 2 Travels "Osta-Baille Collector"
The Monastery of Tuath "Greater Farl Collector"
Occultism "Farl Collector"
The Monastery of Tuath "Greater Farl Collector"
Occultism "Farl Collector"
Re: Call of Ctulhu
Thank you for these interventions! I find such exchanges very interesting in that they give us opportunities to share our points of view on a particular facet of the universe.
myst, I agree that Esteren's setting is fundamentally different from the one Lovecraft depicts, and that not all the same themes can be applied to both universes. However, in my opinion, there are two big themes that are prevalent in Lovecraftian storytelling which you can largely find in Esteren:
1) Unfathomableness:
Although there is a "Cthulhu Mythos," the basic essence of Lovecraft's universe is that the protagonists are dealing (or, most often, are the victims of) entities that are beyond their understanding. Likewise, although a bestiary is provided for some Feondas, they remain, as a whole, creatures whose motivations, habits, and even nature remain unknown. There is a feeling that whatever may be attempted against them, humanity will never be able to truly triumph against these monsters.
Moreover, both in Lovecraft and in Esteren, the unfathomableness of things can reach a soul-crushing intensity. For example, Lovecraft's Great Elders are of a mindset entirely alien from ours, and the mere idea of such antediluvian things lurking somewhere is nerve-wracking. Similar questions can reach a similar unbearable intensity in Esteren: What are the C'maoghs? What is the One? What is Flux? Where do the Tarish come from? Etc.
2) Mystery:
The universe of the Call of Cthulhu is well-known for focusing on investigative storytelling rather than an action-oriented one. The protagonist(s) are faced with something that they do not understand, and that they try to grasp as they can, most often suffering direly in the process. Similarly, a good part of Esteren's scenarios have the Players uncover (voluntarily or not) secrets that often prove to entail more than they could chew.
What's great in the matter in that it is thrilling to depict both the investigations of the protagonists, and the way they will bear what they uncover in the end.
These are the two major focuses that can be found both in Call of Cthulhu and in Esteren, according to me.
myst, I agree that Esteren's setting is fundamentally different from the one Lovecraft depicts, and that not all the same themes can be applied to both universes. However, in my opinion, there are two big themes that are prevalent in Lovecraftian storytelling which you can largely find in Esteren:
1) Unfathomableness:
Although there is a "Cthulhu Mythos," the basic essence of Lovecraft's universe is that the protagonists are dealing (or, most often, are the victims of) entities that are beyond their understanding. Likewise, although a bestiary is provided for some Feondas, they remain, as a whole, creatures whose motivations, habits, and even nature remain unknown. There is a feeling that whatever may be attempted against them, humanity will never be able to truly triumph against these monsters.
Moreover, both in Lovecraft and in Esteren, the unfathomableness of things can reach a soul-crushing intensity. For example, Lovecraft's Great Elders are of a mindset entirely alien from ours, and the mere idea of such antediluvian things lurking somewhere is nerve-wracking. Similar questions can reach a similar unbearable intensity in Esteren: What are the C'maoghs? What is the One? What is Flux? Where do the Tarish come from? Etc.
2) Mystery:
The universe of the Call of Cthulhu is well-known for focusing on investigative storytelling rather than an action-oriented one. The protagonist(s) are faced with something that they do not understand, and that they try to grasp as they can, most often suffering direly in the process. Similarly, a good part of Esteren's scenarios have the Players uncover (voluntarily or not) secrets that often prove to entail more than they could chew.
What's great in the matter in that it is thrilling to depict both the investigations of the protagonists, and the way they will bear what they uncover in the end.
These are the two major focuses that can be found both in Call of Cthulhu and in Esteren, according to me.
Allez, come on, allons-y, here we go, en avant, godspeed, hardi, let's do this!
Re: Call of Ctulhu
@selderane: What do you mean with "being too objective"? I'm not trying to be snarky here, just curious about your understanding of objectivity.
Maybe you're right, but the point that I was trying to make is that being a tough guy living in a small town with the imposing landscapes that populate the peninsula, where you know that there are a group of wise men of the forest that do funky rituals for the spirits of the wind and even they are kind of nervous about certain stuff going on in the creepy place where a friend of yours dissapeared when you were a kid kind of makes you humbler than being an academic in the early 20th century New England. And that arrogance of the learned man against the absolute futility and lack of meaning of the human world in the face of a truth that doesn't care about you seems to be the point of Lovecraft's work.
While I agree that the aspects you used to describe lovecraftian horror are completely adequate to SoE, describing Lovecraft's work as fear of the unknown and the potential harm to everything you care is describing it with way too broad strokes. That's about half of what the horror genre does before and after Howie.
@Clovis:
I like your depiction of Esteren's horror. It would probably be a good idea to add that another factor for horror is the mechanical enforcement of the fragility of men. Characters constantly risk death and/or mental breakdown. They aren't shining heroes against the evils of the world, but brave people wandering through their outer and inner dark, looking to stave off a threat they don't understand and that most probably will kill them. That's inspiring.
I think that your notions of horror get closer to the works of Thomas Ligotti (unfathomableness & mystery) than Lovecraft's (more related to alienation from social meaning and impotence in the face of an inconmesurable opposition which is the hidden meaning of the world).
Note: I don't have a degree in literature, nor I am the voice of the revelated truth of horror. It just happens that I like the genre and enjoy talking about it.
Maybe you're right, but the point that I was trying to make is that being a tough guy living in a small town with the imposing landscapes that populate the peninsula, where you know that there are a group of wise men of the forest that do funky rituals for the spirits of the wind and even they are kind of nervous about certain stuff going on in the creepy place where a friend of yours dissapeared when you were a kid kind of makes you humbler than being an academic in the early 20th century New England. And that arrogance of the learned man against the absolute futility and lack of meaning of the human world in the face of a truth that doesn't care about you seems to be the point of Lovecraft's work.
While I agree that the aspects you used to describe lovecraftian horror are completely adequate to SoE, describing Lovecraft's work as fear of the unknown and the potential harm to everything you care is describing it with way too broad strokes. That's about half of what the horror genre does before and after Howie.
@Clovis:
I like your depiction of Esteren's horror. It would probably be a good idea to add that another factor for horror is the mechanical enforcement of the fragility of men. Characters constantly risk death and/or mental breakdown. They aren't shining heroes against the evils of the world, but brave people wandering through their outer and inner dark, looking to stave off a threat they don't understand and that most probably will kill them. That's inspiring.
I think that your notions of horror get closer to the works of Thomas Ligotti (unfathomableness & mystery) than Lovecraft's (more related to alienation from social meaning and impotence in the face of an inconmesurable opposition which is the hidden meaning of the world).
Note: I don't have a degree in literature, nor I am the voice of the revelated truth of horror. It just happens that I like the genre and enjoy talking about it.