The usefulness of Parry

[Arthus]

Additonal Idea : for me parry may also be used to deflect arrows... (yes, even with a sword...) Also useful for a bodyguard!!!

[Ovid]

Thanks for all the feedback. That makes things a lot clearer!

Letting someone parry for a comrade is a drastic improvement: I like it! (I also don't think it would be something an untrained person could necessarily do, especially in the heat of combat when your main concern is protecting yourself...)

Is there a reason why anyone would Parry in the Standard Attitude, though?

[Dragoslav]

Is there a reason why anyone would Parry in the Standard Attitude, though?

The player hesitated while deciding his Attitude and the GL made him use that one?

[AssenG]

That's a possibility. However, I think the "Riposte" system could make the Art very (maybe overly) powerful, so I'd personally stick to the original function of the Art.

If a Player wants to parry, maybe I'd use the same system, but with only half of the fighting skill (or a -2 or -4 bonus), to make for the fact that the Character is not used to expertly deflecting blows.

That's also a possibility, though a Discipline with weapons should be enough for that.

Thanks for all the feedback. That makes things a lot clearer!

Letting someone parry for a comrade is a drastic improvement: I like it! (I also don't think it would be something an untrained person could necessarily do, especially in the heat of combat when your main concern is protecting yourself...)

Is there a reason why anyone would Parry in the Standard Attitude, though?

When talking about a character with a combative Domain on 5 and maybe a Discipline, we're not talking an untrained person, are we?
And yes, unless the GL choosed for him, or using a Riposte houserule system, there's no reason I can see to Parry in the Standard attitude.

[Ovid]

Is there a reason why anyone would Parry in the Standard Attitude, though?

The player hesitated while deciding his Attitude and the GL made him use that one?

Yeah, that works:

GL: The Feond is upon you, its twisted anatomy a mockery of the beloved sister whose soul used to animate that same flesh. You have initiative. WHAT DO YOU DO?!
Player: Ahhhh!
GL: That'll be Standard, then.
Player: Bollocks. Uh, I parry?

When talking about a character with a combative Domain on 5 and maybe a Discipline, we're not talking an untrained person, are we?

I was talking about someone who hadn't been trained to defend other people, yes. Being good at fighting for yourself wouldn't necessarily make you especially good at fighting in a team.

[Nelyhann]

In fact, it is very useful to gain time. In Esteren, combats are very quick, because they're lethal (3-4 rounds max). Using that art gives you a chance to make the combat longer and increases your chance not to be wounded.

Yes you are right, this is the main point in my opinion. Gain time.
How long can you hold on before a crucial event occurs AT LAST??
This rule has been oriented to the narrative, to maximize suspense. If we had more space, I would have explained it in the game system. The example of saving a friend from a fatal blow is very good also, so dramatic!

But then, I'd probably use Parry as a way to set up a Riposte.

I think we talked a lot about such possibilities with the French community. During the playtest we used a lot of possibilities.

My favorite was: when you do natural 10 on your parry (and assume that you parry the attack), then your parade turns into riposte and you win a free attack roll this round.

I do not remember why it was not chosen ... perhaps to keep the parade focused on defense and something dramatic (the desperate defense ...) and avoid it to be sued only as an option to fight. Or maybe it was a silly matter of space because this page was so busy and we wanted SO MUCH to keep the combat system on only 3 pages. It was a challenge you know

I don't know if I am clear here, it is very hard to explain myself in english....!

Is there a reason why anyone would Parry in the Standard Attitude, though?

Yes because Quick attitude lower your defense and Defense attitude lower your attack (so it lower your chance of parry). A small matter of strategy here...

[Ovid]

we wanted SO MUCH to keep the combat system on only 3 pages. It was a challenge you know

I don't know if I am clear here, it is very hard to explain myself in english....!

Your English is great - just be careful of "parade" as a "faux ami" (as we say in English!) - it means "défilé" or "revue", not "parry".

The concision of the combat rules is pretty amazing. I haven't had a chance to play yet, but any system has a challenge keeping combat quick and simple while offering tactical options - it's very impressive to do that without letting it dominate the rules section and give a false impression of what the game is about.

Is there a reason why anyone would Parry in the Standard Attitude, though?

Yes because Quick attitude lower your defense and Defense attitude lower your attack (so it lower your chance of parry). A small matter of strategy here...[/quote]

Of course. I should've spotted that. Thanks!

[AssenG]

But then, I'd probably use Parry as a way to set up a Riposte.

I think we talked a lot about such possibilities with the French community. During the playtest we used a lot of possibilities.

My favorite was: when you do natural 10 on your parry (and assume that you parry the attack), then your parade turns into riposte and you win a free attack roll this round.

Sounds like a Combat Manoeuvre in Legend. And yes, CMs are cool.
But remember, I'd assume people don't train in moves that are simply dramatic. So, as an in-game rationale for existing, Parry should have at least a marginal use in personal combat - to me, at least.
So, it's less about the game, and more about what my group and me would find logical. If I'm presenting it on this forum, it's for the benefit of people with similar tastes, and not as an attack against people that find that the rules in the book are just fine. They are absolutely serviceable - but as all GMs/MdJs/GLs, I tend to add some houserules when I find it would improve the game for my group.
And where better to share them than on the game's official forum?

I do not remember why it was not chosen ... perhaps to keep the parade focused on defense and something dramatic (the desperate defense ...) and avoid it to be sued only as an option to fight.

That could be clarified in a sidebar about making fights more dramatic by adding additional objectives. It's where you could list manoeuvres that are meant to be used this way.
Actually, I believe many GMs can benefit from remembering this is possible.

Or maybe it was a silly matter of space because this page was so busy and we wanted SO MUCH to keep the combat system on only 3 pages. It was a challenge you know

I can totally understand a challenge like that !
As an additional benefit, it sends a clear message the game isn't about fighting, right ?

I don't know if I am clear here, it is very hard to explain myself in english....!

You're absolutely clear. Actually, I find your mastery of English to be rather good, for all the opinion of a non-native speaker is worth!

[Nelyhann]

Thanks for youor answer,

They are absolutely serviceable - but as all GMs/MdJs/GLs, I tend to add some houserules when I find it would improve the game for my group.
And where better to share them than on the game's official forum?

Yes you are right, I agree. RPG in general are so great because they push you to create. Every game master create and make his own version of a game. I am really happy that Esteren can encourage some of you creates scenario, rules or background.

Please share it with us, this is the meaning of this forum !